Help for Mastering

Music creation & DJ mixing, how tos questions, discussions & help ~~~ Musical Software/hardware/skills etc...
PsyHye
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Post by PsyHye » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:54 pm

Thanks again for the new responses. But what exactly is mixing down?

Sorry if that is painfully obvious and a stupid question.

Does this mean to just have everything mixed properly but below the max volume your software allows so that after it's mastered it becomes louder all around while still keeping most dynamics?

I'm using ableton live and just mix everything so each sound has the correct volume to my ears and then i'm making everything as loud as possible without clipping. Should i be going about this differently?

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Post by Oxidelic » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:52 pm

MixDown:

suppose you have all your sounds,leads, fx,kik, bas, etc etc on 0db volume. Supose you haevent alter none of the gains or volumes of your trak. If this is true your master channle will be peaking teribly! So you lower everything. lower your master channle to -6db or until -12db. so that the highest peak of your trak doesent goes beyond -3db- Now BALANCE everything in your project. This means you strat to move the volume (remeber we left it on 0db) of eevery single element, kik bass. hats, leads etc, acording to the trak and your ideas. I mean if you feel some lead is too laud, lower it -1 -2 db. Also you HAVE TO equalize! So a clean moxdown means that the overall RMS of your trak is not more than -17db (not the volume!!! but the RMS!! The overal energy power of your trak). You'll tell: But it sounds SO QUIET!!!! well, push up the volume of your amplfier than ;) But not the master channel. In my case I dont lower on the master channel but I lower everything separately. You can make the same but you should have very good control on everything. Usually my kik is on -7db. my bass on -8db -9db, my leads etc on -7, -8, depends and so on. Mixdown is cleanly mixed, balanced and rendered (bounced) 24bit file of your trak that doesent peaks in no moment over -3db, has overall power (RMS of -17db) and has full dinamics and NO COMPRESION, LIMITERS or whatever other Sound-Altering FX!!! The Mixdown is like the Master-FIle that will be used for further mastering.

;)

Hope you understand.
:cheers

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Post by PsyHye » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:39 pm

I think i kinda understand but so you are saying that the track would be really quiet and have to be volume maxed out to hear at a good level and then so the next track comes on and is normal volume so it blows up? I'm just confused I guess this is what you would do right before it's proffesionally mastered?

It was my instinct to mix everything so it sounds like all the sounds you want to hear are balanced and the volume you want them at and then to just bring the master up as much as you possibly can without clipping so the track is a normal volume of a cd or a song on the radio. Is this wrong?

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Post by Oxidelic » Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:09 am

man...

what next trak?

a 24bit clean mixdown Is Not A Proper File To Play On Parties!!!

the MIXDOWN is the file between your finished composition and your FINAL MASTERED VERSION of the trak. OK?
The Mixdown should be Quiet Yet Full Of Dinamics (Covering all posible frequencies of the audible spectrum) becaus it NEEDS and it MUST have this so called HEADROOM!

The HEADROOM are those -3db of peaks, -17db of RMS that will be FILLED posteriory in the Mastering Process.

The main and basic thing is that you SHOULD separate the Mastering Process from the Creative Process.

anyway, if you dont understand the therms, PEAK, DB, RMS, HEADROOM, MIXDOWN, MASTERING PROCESS, COMPRESSION, EQ, LIMITERS...
well just write them down in google and you'll get the explanation. than come back and reread over and over again what was said and you'll get little by little the logic in this process called: creation of modern dance music. becasue the same rules apply for every genre in the dance music, house, progressive, idm, chill etc etc etc..

good luck bro
8)

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Post by Cinder » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:54 pm

you are all a bunch of geeks :roll

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Post by PsyHye » Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:07 pm

Oxi, right, I get it for the most part thanks for your help. I meant the next track that comes on if the song is on a radio or whatever is going to be so much louder than your mix down. I was trying to clarify that obviously this isn't the final piece like you said it's the stage between the final master.

I'm definitely a beginner with digital music and music in general but I'm not a complete retard I can of course read wikipedia on all the terms you present to me to try to understand as much as I can like you suggested.

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Post by Oxidelic » Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:47 pm

no worries man. in the end all this are just directions, posible solutions, I didnt invent them, I've learned and continue learning the same way as everyone. beleive me, you'll need to construct at least 100traks! so taht you can say, "Boy I've learned at least the basics how to make this shit! how to make those sounds, how to make My Owns!!! how to make that kik.bass fits". I still fight with this. I'm not sayng, "I'm the best producer in the world!" PLEEAASEEEEE!!!! somebody will kill me! I'm just sharing what i've learned from big producers, electrypnose f.e. and you'll see that its much more easier than one thinks. I mean the tecnical part. In the begining I was ending up with more than 30-40 diferent channles, every channel full of 10000000 FXs... and I've learned that you can make crazy, clean traks, with maximum 5 audio channles and 4-5 vsti chanles but A LOT OF SENDS!! this is the trik to maintain your project not full of 10000 channels, effects, etc... yet very diverse, interesting and full of strange stories.. Learn to Record your leads as WAVS (minimum 24bit on 44khx, if you can more BETTER), backgrounds... learn to cut them a lot into the project, rearange the cuted parts, invent stories.. ehehehe, and maintain as real instruments just the snares, percusions, kik, bass (if you are not using samples, which i recomnd you a lot), also make BUS (sends) GROUPS so that you can apply effects directly over group of channels. for example. if you want to quiet for a mometn all your perkusions, group them, and do not automate every single volume!

so lets tweeaaakkkk!!!! :D
:dance

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Post by maartenvandijk303 » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:31 pm

i think that this must be one of the better threads on the forum for learning about producing music. 8) So thankyou psyhye for asking what i think are the questions about the problems all newbies run in to
What i suggest is that you download that video about mastering that oxidelic put on the forum it is really handy to get a better picture about the producing proces.It helped me a lot. :D So thanks a lot oxidelic and the rest of people on the forum. :cheers

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Post by RAWAR / BOLENATH » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:52 am

OXIDELIC wrote:no worries man. in the end all this are just directions, posible solutions, I didnt invent them, I've learned and continue learning the same way as everyone. beleive me, you'll need to construct at least 100traks! so taht you can say, "Boy I've learned at least the basics how to make this shit! how to make those sounds, how to make My Owns!!! how to make that kik.bass fits". I still fight with this. I'm not sayng, "I'm the best producer in the world!" PLEEAASEEEEE!!!! somebody will kill me! I'm just sharing what i've learned from big producers, electrypnose f.e. and you'll see that its much more easier than one thinks. I mean the tecnical part. In the begining I was ending up with more than 30-40 diferent channles, every channel full of 10000000 FXs... and I've learned that you can make crazy, clean traks, with maximum 5 audio channles and 4-5 vsti chanles but A LOT OF SENDS!! this is the trik to maintain your project not full of 10000 channels, effects, etc... yet very diverse, interesting and full of strange stories.. Learn to Record your leads as WAVS (minimum 24bit on 44khx, if you can more BETTER), backgrounds... learn to cut them a lot into the project, rearange the cuted parts, invent stories.. ehehehe, and maintain as real instruments just the snares, percusions, kik, bass (if you are not using samples, which i recomnd you a lot), also make BUS (sends) GROUPS so that you can apply effects directly over group of channels. for example. if you want to quiet for a mometn all your perkusions, group them, and do not automate every single volume!

so lets tweeaaakkkk!!!! :D
:dance

I think every new producer should read this post , well said brother.

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Post by PsyHye » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:13 pm

Yes thank you all so much,, I have yet to check out the mastering guide i've been so busy with other stuff :( :( I'm trying to juggle too many hobbies at once, video games, magic the gathering and etc most of the time Im too lazy immediately after work and I just play games listening to the awesome tracks you guys have on the radio. I also have a flash presentation on mastering and guide for my program I use that I've been checking out as time allows. Hopefully that'll be valueable and assist more.

Motivation seems to hit me in waves and randomly when I want to get better at producing and learn more and play in the software. I'm positive If I just put in more effort and continue playing with things and learning from mistakes I'll eventually "get it". thanks again

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Post by virtualien » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:54 pm

OXIDELIC wrote: anyway here is a PRESENT for you, this is a fulllenght tutorial by mr. SYNSUN, you'll learn a lot secertes, if you can apply everything that is explained in this tutorial you'll be able to bring your sound and mixing techniques to another level, have fun:
http://www.udma.com.ua/academy/index.ph ... _Tutorial/

:cheers
ouch!! this is f*cking killerrrr bro really cool.. thnxxx for sharing.. :cheers

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Post by Gergo » Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:43 am

leave mastering for pro workers. make a good mixdown on your track, that should do it. imo

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Post by Oxidelic » Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:26 pm

Gergo wrote:leave mastering for pro workers. make a good mixdown on your track, that should do it. imo
ahaha cool this is truth in a perfct - ideal world. BUT suppose you make a mixdown of 10 traks, you release 3-4, you got the mastered versions but, you want to mix the rest too... what you'd do? you cannot mix in a live show a -8db / -3dbpeaks mixdown which hardly get to -12db of RMS with an mastered version of your trak that can get over -9db of RMS.. ehehehehe

so one have to learn to make home-made masterings too... or pay tim shuld to master every single trak of yours? so that you can play it live... ;)

I think that one can achieve good sound using the home euipment too. it will never get to the power that a mastered-in-studio trak can have, but at least it can fit very nice into your whole mix.

8)

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Post by Toxic Anger Syndrome » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:24 am

Hehe... I really need to read and learn this things... "you people" are talking in some wierd language here that I don't understand.. :-?

...and sorry Nico for the tracks you got from me a while ago... was probably a nightmare to master since I have no idea of this kinda things :oops:

...and thanks Oxi for the link to the video.... hope I understand that one better! ;)

:cheers

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