simple bass patch in zebra for those wanna getting started..

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Mandari
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simple bass patch in zebra for those wanna getting started..

Post by Mandari » Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:07 am

hey folks,

so i got this pm from one of our fellows i read in the morning and thought maybe to share the basic stuff contained. we had some discussion about how to achieve good sounding bass on zebra. as this bass thingy appears still quite a lot, i thought maybe to share some basic idea on how to achieve a simple bass to start off with....

so, here we go. everything just to get started with and for those of you who want to know about the simple basics of baseline and the possibilities offered to get it sounding right. for sure it all depends on what you´re looking for, the sound you do, the bpm you work with, notes, scales etc. blahblah... so this is really only a simple basspatch and you have to figure out yourself how you get the results you need. but maybe this becomes some more easy to one or the other after reading.

so, for bass i start from scratch as for everything else, i know zebra has some killing presets, anyways, got my own stuff in mind not contained in the preset library
so first you go for the "init" patch and ensure that really everything is init, so with the fx section, settings of level, global level etc. if you press a key on your keyboard you should hear just one damn boring and maybe not that loud saw wave.
after this i go for the timing settings in the amp envelope section. just push all the knobs to zero settings, adsr, just everything to zero. after i give it some attack and decay until i like it and it works well with the kick. just for when the sound to play, for how long and on what level. give it some slight release, zebra doesnt like zero release, causing in a clipping signal or artefacted signal. so slowest release possible should work fine.
ah, sure therefor the midinotes should be fine, i use to adjust them first around some less than 16th notes, adjusting the envelope after and go back to midinotes if needed to get it really tight.
now as you got the basic settings i go for the filter. put a vcf right after the osc module, give it some resonance and play around with the cutoff knob to hear if the sweep of the resonance is ok for the bass or if you like it at least. adjust until it´s ok for you and put the cutoff down to a point where the bass is sounding quite good, but without movement so far. now you click on the empty modulation space, right to the resonance knob. choose another envelope (2) and adjust it.
this envelope will be about the filtermovement, so best is to have a clear idea of what your bass should sound like. deep and wobbly, fast and tight, slow with lots of filtermovement, whatever. the only thing about good bass is to find the right envelope settings for both, filter and amp, and setting the midinotes right with right velocity levels.
however, again same like with the amp envelope, everything to zero, twist the attack knob first to get afast and good attack, decay after and sustain to taste, less release possible. usually i dont have to change the envelope to play faster, they´re already fast and i write my tracks 160+usually....



this above you do with only one osc, poly to single. tune it down to taste. usually it´s easier to me working on a higher bassline, i can hear the stuff better, and adjust tune down after setting stuff, maybe some slight corrections on lower note after. easiest way to get bass imo, just to give you something to start with. think about how to improve the sound into the direction you got in mind.

check it with this patch i uploaded for you.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/4wsqwo

i did it like the way i told you above as im lazy sometimes i tuned it down and so i didnt have to scroll for lower notes in the piano roll:D so i used the f3 key. anyways, should be easy to understand. use f1 and put tune to zero, should result in the same sound

so you can see what i was talking about and maybe it gives you some idea how to go on. just tweak the knobs and have some fun. very simple patch, try maybe to change the filter to a xmf filter module, maybe poly to double, add another osc with sine or stuff, some detune, maybe go to "more osc 1" and play around with the wavform, maybe switch to geoblend section there and draw your own, play around with velocity or notelength, feel free to try whatever comes to your mind

zebra is endless possibility, love it

to processing, i try to get the bass as near to what i want to achieve, usually i have to keep more attention on the kickdrum to give it the punch working good with the bass. but this is fast music i do, it always depends on what sound you do and what notes,scale you´re working on and what you want to achieve.

anyways, there are few things i do after. i try to avoid the use of eq, but if i use, i use very decent settings, no notches or corrections, just some slight up and down here and there. what i put down on bass i.e. i raise on the kick and vice versa. but if i do it´s usually some corrections (downs) on the bass around 120-150hz where the mud lies and the "hums" we dont like. i give it some raise sometimes around 500hz where the bass begins to "live". usually i dont have any trouble with not enough punch, but could raise around 93hz-100hz for sure, there is the punch. but usually I DONT. ah and sometimes i cut below 30hz, but this depends on the bass, same here, try to avoid the need of a cut, digital basses often are not that muddy like analog ones few years ago. with few right synth you dont need to cut cause sure one wants to feel the bass too. and if you wanna get some really deep bass shaking through your whole body, then pls dont cut the shit out of it. anyways, what you prefer and what sounds good to you is the only thing matters. at least this is only my opinion and only to give you something to think about. sometimes it´s needed and sometimes you dont need. you will find out yourself during some while...

the problem often is not to get it sounding "good", it´s to get it sounding together.
so i tend to glue them together, because the 100hz section is the body of both and both need that punch. and sure we´re all looking for that tight and glitchy stuff.
usually my kickdrum needs more of that punch, so i like to raise that section with a mastering eq (like stilwell 1973 or flux eq for that job), giving it some more punch and character around 100hz until the kick "meets" the bass. and usually i give it some more body than the bass, around 60hz maybe some raisealways depending on the source for sure. everything just slightly and with lots of care. get it sounding good is always only about the right settings in any process. and mastering eq i.e. colours the bass and your ear gets very fast used to it!! so keep attention on using it wise or in best case avoid the need. it´s possible doin everything only in zebra and glue kick/bass together on a send with a compressor on it if you desire.

my last step, sending both (kick/bass) to a return channel and putting some slight compression on it. it´s not to make it louder, just glue them together. so,... hard to say. it´s not that i can hear what i´m doing, i just feel the result, it maybe sounds some more together and not that departed. i use fast attack settings with pretty usual release around 200-250ms, threshold to taste. depending on the track and the need i decide sending through return to master or mix both signals to master.
but also here i try to avoid this. possible to avoid the need. but often the results just sound better this way and clean up the mix.

anyway i try to avoid compression and eqing all the time. if i do, then only if it´s sounding better or absolutely needed to get the result i got in mind. if i can do that on the source this is my preferation. keep in mind you´re always dealing with lack of quality and loosing dynamics with any process you do

this is my way to go for things. just to give you something to get started with hope this kinda helps. lot of information here maybe for some of you, if you think about after reading you will find heaps of new possibilities i guess.

and my last tip, try to avoid hearing kick and bass for longer than few minutes. rather stop playing while you do some settings and have some breaks between. because your hearing changes very fast and with fast music you got really weired psychoacustic FX let you believe you´re on a absolutely wrong way (caused by the hypnotic repetation of the baseline your brain imagines own changes in it just not being there for real) and maybe already got it i know lot of ppl working on baseline just for too long. i try to focus on details later. fact is that the only importance is how the baseline works with your song. when i got all material and maybe all stuff already arrangened i go for details and working on the sounds, cleaning up everything, doin prior mix and stuff (usually another day, to have a clear and neutral hearing). so my advice, focus on some basics, i really start like the way i told you. cause it´s simple and i can work on details later but already got a decent bass to work with. also the steps about processing i do later on, not while i´m for kick/bass. because later on the track i can decide if it´s needed or not.

at least this gives me the ability to focus on finishing the track as fast as possible. i work like this because otherwise i would loose my ideas and sounds and all things left behind for the track in my mind.

hope you dont mind the novel,

have a nice day, enjoy: stephan
Last edited by Mandari on Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JARJOR
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Post by JARJOR » Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:55 am

buaou thankssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Zagoan
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Post by Zagoan » Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:07 pm

thanks for the novel :D interesting points here.
I'm usually struggling a bit with kick and bass, so tips and tricks are always welcome.
thanks again :drinks

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Post by JARJOR » Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:04 am

Thanks for the post I am jast trying to making sound it buf fff even with your help it´s turning me crazyyyyy i will survive!!!!!
There was another post that has dissapeared posted by oxidelic about making a bass with cronox 2....Zebra seems to be more complete...but more difficult.....
Every body says that bass has to be as rawer as you can do it without xtra equ and other stuff...A question... I always do so plain and raw bass it doesnt sound me good....I guess it depends too side chainning and the right equalization but i have never been completely satisfied ...am i so bad producer? or it depends on mastering? Must i only trust in frecuency analyzers???
Can anybody post a right frecuency image of a correct bass?

Thanks for all

Just for sharing knowledge i have discovered this vst who emules pink floyd synths... vintage stuff....I sounds fatter i loved it....Hope you like it guys...

http://www.emsrehberg.de/SYNTHI__s/SYNT ... lugin.html

Fraktal
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Post by Fraktal » Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:20 pm

Hehe, great that you mention the "absolute wrong way" one could think he's on...Experienced it myself. Not nice.

Mandari
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Post by Mandari » Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:34 pm

8) yepp i guess most ppl did or will discover ... :cs

Mandari
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Post by Mandari » Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:54 pm

JARJOR wrote:Thanks for the post I am jast trying to making sound it buf fff even with your help it´s turning me crazyyyyy i will survive!!!!!
There was another post that has dissapeared posted by oxidelic about making a bass with cronox 2....Zebra seems to be more complete...but more difficult.....
Every body says that bass has to be as rawer as you can do it without xtra equ and other stuff...A question... I always do so plain and raw bass it doesnt sound me good....I guess it depends too side chainning and the right equalization but i have never been completely satisfied ...am i so bad producer? or it depends on mastering? Must i only trust in frecuency analyzers???
Can anybody post a right frecuency image of a correct bass?

Thanks for all
l
first at all, there is no "right" frequency image or stuff of a correct bass. at the end bass is what you want it to sound like. so the very first thing is that you have to know what you want to achieve. in this case what character your bass should have.

i agree with these people and didnt want to believe that for quite long time too. but yes, it´s sure possible getting a crystal clear phat ass shaking bass out of a synth without the need to do any processing. (well, you will leave it for the mastering engineer, but thats another story).

i cant give any recipe of how it´s done better than above, it always depends on things like what bpm you´re on, which scales, which tone etc.
but basically good bass is ONLY about setting up the filter and the adsr of envelopes used. nothing else... =D

it never depends on sidechain,eq,compression or other stuff. these are tools you could use to get your bass more stunning, defining it and clearify things maybe. but important is the source, your bass should work without any process. ;)

any process should be to work on details, not to correct things. if i need to notch my bass just because the synth sounds muddy in the lows i.e. i just change the synth if i dont like the muddy stuff actually.... always try to avoid the need for an eq, compressor or other processes. if used, try to use it to SHAPE the sound. remember, always dealing with dynamics. so very slightly settings, soft compression or parallel compression etc.

at the end, ... trust your ears. if it sounds shit, it probably is :D but never give up, my fault for a long was screwing around the knobs like their is no life in it. instead try to hear the details between one step at your filter maybe and the difference it makes. same to the envelope, theres quite a lot of difference between 1-5 ms at your attack maybe. check the difference between 1-2ms.... same to any setting you have to do. it´s always and really only about finding the right ones.....always depending on each track and the many different things it makes it to become a track at the end...

sorry for my french and this kind of novel again....

cheers

JARJOR
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Post by JARJOR » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:33 am

Thanks for your post i´m trying to do what you are saying and i´m begining to being satisfied with my bass....
Zebra seems to be so gooddddddddddddddd

Thanksssssssssssssss

Mandari
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Post by Mandari » Mon May 17, 2010 8:08 am

welcome any time ;)

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