New bass thread

Music creation & DJ mixing, how tos questions, discussions & help ~~~ Musical Software/hardware/skills etc...
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Zagoan
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New bass thread

Post by Zagoan » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:53 pm

Hi people, I thought I'd put in the posts I copied from the previous BASS thread that we loved so much..

Unfortunately I didn't write down who said what and when, so I'll just put them in in the order I copied them. Hope its ok for the authors...

I just split the different posts in different colors so that its a bit easier to read.

But I think it was Oxi who posted this first one :drinks

if you use Cronox2 (I recommend it eagerly, its very fat and crunchy this synth):

First of All, turn off all types of effects on the synth you might have, slide down until 0 all the ADS(F)R both of the filter envelope and the amplitude envelope. At this stage you will not hear anything. now you go to the OSC section. in Cronox there are 2 OSC. Choose the upper one (it has a nice Saw wave), you choose it moving the MIX button, up is OSC1, down is OSC2, and of course you can mix them but for now we dont need this. (notice there are also FM and AM switches, Dont use them for now, Use the MIX)
Now you have to choose the clean SAWthooth wave (the one that looks like a peak and not the triangle wink )

you will notice also a Detune, and Spread buttons. we dont need them for now.
On the filter section choose LP24, also put the buttons TRACK and DEPTH in the middle. Now push play of your DAW. Still nothing, and sure we have both ADSR turned off.. and here starts th real tweaking.. try pushing up a little bit the S (sustain) both of the filter and the amp envelopes, also on the amp envelope push just a lil bit the A (attack) too. WOW there is a SOUND already! and nice fat one! so now you can continue tweaking the DEPTH and the TRACK buttons a little but until you get a bass line you like.


The following two post are also for CRONOX2

It's especially nice at high speed.

Start the same way as above. Pick a saw wav on OSC 1, with OSC 2 off and the mix (obviously) on all the way to the left. Set the symmetry wherever it sounds nice to you (I frequently find myself wandering around the 10 O'clock zone), then don't let any unfiltered noise through (TRACK to %100), no filter envelope (DEPTH to %0), and decay time and sustain volume all the way up. Also, attack all the way down, and just the teensiest release you can imagine. For weirdo-crazy-person-ultra-doom bass, set the filter cutoff low (around 300Hz). for more generally ripping bass, set the cutoff higher. In my experience, it is best not to endow the filter with too much resonance... most of the time, no resonance will do nicely

Since the decay parameter on the amp envelope is set all the way up, the midi note length will entirely determine the length of the note played. With the sustain volume all the way up, the bass loses a lot of its potential dynamics (except the teensiest bit at the end!), but it really makes up for the loss with growling, bad-ass, loud-as-balls, textured delight. Also, if you're anything like me, you will not have much use for intra-note dynamics while you're blasting away at the back wall of your studio at 160+ bpm. At fast speeds, I think it's okay to take dynamic cues from the space between bass notes rather than the beautifully crafted shape hidden within your 1/20th of a second of bass (which is about all you get at 160 bpm with 32nd note bass on 16th note intervals).

A mildly interesting sidenote: 160 bpm means that each beat (which is a quarter note in the psytrance meter ) last for 3/8ths of a second. so, your 32nd note is only 3/64ths ( or, a little under 1/20th ) of a second long. this means at 160 bpm, if you render a 32nd note of 64Hz anything and look at it in a sample editor, you will see exactly three cycles of whatever waveform you chose to play. Wild, huh?

More interestingly, with this bass, you will need a HARD kick. I'm serious.

After all the fun choosing a kick sample, eqing it, and sometimes maximizing it (yeah, I said it), apply a sidechain compressor to keep the bass on the 2nd 16th note of whatever beat from summing too irresponsibly with the tail end of your extremely low pitched (and therefore very long) kick.




The only thing i would add is that when you are tweaking the filter and amp sustain values, you will also have to tweak the decay to get the sound you want.
also you can try other notes than B0, could be G0 or anything else. Remember, the main tweaking is in the S button but just if the rest is down. you can try also to move a little bit the Release of the Amp Filter. but really A Bit! otherwise you will get continuous and distorted bass. So this is the basics for the Cronox2, once you have made this you can try experimenting with the other parameters but always very slightly or you will ruin everything.



I do think it's worth saying again that I don't think the fundamental needs to be the loudest piece of the bass line. If you find the right tone the sound is still deep and dark, but very clear. Try using multiband distortion to boost and drive 100-300hz and bring down 60-100hz a bit. The kick really sticks out and the bass is *punchy* and powerful. Anyone else hear what I'm saying or is this crazy?

about the fundamentl of the bass i agree, not always it is the strongest, but it must be present and very nicely shaped so that we can achieve those warm basslines. and for sure, the banging part of the bass is between 80-300Hz.

now about your post, i agree too, and actually this is what i am trying to say, don't use a lot EQs on the bass. when i gave example with the stillwell 1973 or the vibeEq also from them, I wanted to explain that they are not actually Surgicals Eqs, they have veeery smooth curves. they have just LP (low pass), LS (low shelfs) veeeeery usefull , MB (midbell) and HP (high pass). as you see there is no Qs, no notch, nothing like that, just smooth analog-like curves.

What I'm trying to say is that if you run your bass very well tweaked from the beginning, from the synth itself, no matter if it is trilogy or vb1 or cronox, if you run it trough an EQ of this sort (analog like, analog emulation) and even if you let the knobs as default, it will shape very slightly, very smoothly your bass, it will give to it very rich harmonics, warm and fat. If you start tweaking very slightly the knobs, start using the gain or the freq of every knob (did you see that on most of the analog type EQs, there are specific frequencies marked..? hehe it has its meaning ), move the freqs-knob, move the gains downwards (here is a tip: Use the Eqs mostly for Eliminating freqs not for boosting ) but you can always start experimenting too , so we do this not to cut drastically our poor bass, no.. we do this to shape it very smoothly and slightly but using the analog-like algorhythms of those very special EQs. this simple process will give more integrity in the sound, it will give it warm without mudding the sound, but the opposite, it will make it more clear yet fat because of the subtle contrast that the analog-eq will give it and because of that i said, we sculpt, we shape the bass, not cuting or deforming or distorting... this is bad.

now people can ask... "but why do i need to make all this if i can just adjust my kik and fit it between the fundamental and first octave waves of the bass? this is the perfect way to fit em and also very stable...?"
..well this is also 100% true but if we want to make a moving bass, a bass that changes the note or texture.. than we will need to pass it through an analog like eq (to form contrast and rich harmonics) and than a good compressor with side-chain so that when the bass changes the note the gain doesent explode ehehehe.. and the bass stay stable despite of the note changes... and because of the sidechain the kicks tail does not changes audibly..



thanks to all of you who wrote these posts, they have helped me alot on the way!! Peace and love to everyone :kiss:D

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Post by Oxidelic » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:57 pm

yeah thank you man!

The legacy is spread
:drinks :xdance :drinks

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Post by JARJOR » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:03 am

thanks

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Post by The Andychrist » Mon May 03, 2010 8:02 pm

Wooo! Glad these posts survive :roll

Here is another nice one (this time for the Predator :axe: ) :

turn Osc 1 on and select the saw waveform on the waveform selector dial. If the "free" button is lit up, TURN IT OFF!
Click the button at the bottom of the Osc 1 window that says "> filter" if it's not already lit up.
This will send Osc 1 to the main filter, which I like to set as a 24db/octave curve.
You can start the cutoff around 1000 and wiggle around as much as you want in either direction.

It can sometimes be fun to add a second oscillator blasting out nice subsonic sine waves to enhance the rolliness of this bass,
but that kind of behavior is rewarded more at lower bpms or with 8th note (or longer) basslines.

The pre-filter distortion can be used liberally in "smooth" mode, or gently in "edgy" mode.
Then, try activating filter 2 as a 12db/octave highpass with the cutoff left at 20 hz. :roll


Finally, the amp envelope stuff is covered in the above posts. :ura Just make sure your bassnotes don't smash all over each other unless you want them to.

Oh yeah, turn all the other effects off too.

You can also set the cutoff of filter 1 super low and jack the resonance if you're totally psycho... :xdance

Have a good day!

Andy :cs

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Post by Zagoan » Wed May 12, 2010 5:33 pm

Hi people!

I got a question, what do you guys prefer to add to your bass channels to pimp your bass?

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Post by Zero-Blade » Wed May 12, 2010 10:17 pm

Zagoan wrote:Hi people!

I got a question, what do you guys prefer to add to your bass channels to pimp your bass?
Distortion, from time to time a little reverb, maybe a weak phaser/flanger here and there, for some difference, actually you can use whatever you want, as long as you make it sound good.

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Post by Zagoan » Thu May 13, 2010 7:50 am

"actually you can use whatever you want, as long as you make it sound good."

hehe yes I believe you are right about this =)
thanks for the other tips aswell.
Am I right if I say that using a saturator adds harmonics to the bass?
and do you have a fav distortion plugin? And what does the distorion add/do to the sound?

I could get this info from somewhere else, but this forum needs to be kicked in the ass to wake up a bit.

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